Thursday, September 04, 2008

Looking through my Central & Eastern Europe blog feeds today, I saw this headline at La Russophobe: Georgia Fractures Russia’s “Party of Regions”.

I followed the link and read this intro to a reprint of Taras Kuzio's comment on Raisa Bohatyryova’s expulsion from the Party of Regions:

The Jamestown Foundation’s Eurasia Daily Monitor reports the devastating internal consequences of Vladimir Putin’s failure in Georgia: [...]


My innocent attempt to point out the error resulted in this rather amusing exchange in the comments section of La Russophobe's post:

neeka // September 3, 2008 at 6:36 pm

You wrote:

Georgia Fractures Russia’s “Party of Regions”

The Jamestown Foundation’s Eurasia Daily Monitor reports the devastating internal consequences of Vladimir Putin’s failure in Georgia: [...]


Please correct: Party of Regions is a Ukrainian party, and so the “consequences” aren’t really “internal” for Putin.

LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS: Thanks Veronica, that intro was definitely badly done. However, you seem to forget that Party of Regions is the supplicant of the demonic Russian stooge Viktor Yanukovich, and as such it is very much an internal Russian matter, especially since it’s obviously Russia’s goal to annex not only Georgia but also Ukraine.

***

neeka // September 3, 2008 at 7:02 pm

However, you seem to forget [...]

Do I? :)

LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS: You definitely seem to. If you didn’t actually, you might have mentioned it. Ukraine needs all the support it can get in its hour of need!

***

neeka // September 3, 2008 at 7:44 pm

It would’ve been great if you had actually bothered to read Taras Kuzio’s piece before writing that clueless intro to it. As for my seeming forgetfulness, I only wanted to point out an error, didn’t really expect you to publish the comment. :)

LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS: Actually, it would have been great if YOU had read it. See, nowhere in the text does it say that a Ukrainian party is being discussed, though it certainly does discuss Ukrainen and the implication can be drawn. We simply got a bit confused going to press, since we have many, many contributors and many people carrying out many different tasks, something you are apparently not familiar with (but at big newspapers, such mistakes happen every day of the week). Your assumption that we didn’t read the piece, as opposed to simply making a mistake anyone could make, is a pathetically childish (indeed, venemous) remark that could only be prompted by jealousy over the fact that your blog is so much ignored while ours is so much patronized. Undoubtedly, for that reason you almost never link to us, even though we are one of the most powerful Russia blogs on the planet. You’re obviously so consumed with jealousy and hatred that you are desperately searching to find a mistake on our blog, apparently in the childish notion that you never make errors and that if we ever do that means we are incompetent. That’s really rather sad. And why you would think we wouldn’t publish your comment, which pointed out something that needed correction, is beyond us. We’ve published more than 6,000 posts on this blog, and our corrections rate is stupendously low, something we are quite proud of. For you to suggest the contrary is simply defamatory.

And it would have been even better if you had taken the opportunity to speak up for Ukraine, and hadn’t tried to dodge the issue in such a silly manner later on.

But it’s good to know you read us, even though you ignore us and, fortunately, we don’t need your patronage (which is worth next to nothing anyway, in terms of being able to drive traffic to us).

Thanks for stopping by in such a spirit of good faith, so consistent with the norms you profess over at GV!


The not-so-amusing part of it is this: nearly four years since the Orange Revolution, there are still folks out there who read a text with 17 mentions of Yanukovych and then complain that "nowhere in the text does it say that a Ukrainian party is being discussed." That's an extreme case, of course, but La Russophobe isn't the only Russocentric observer for whom Ukraine is something of a blind spot. And an oversimplified view of Ukrainian politics is all too common, too: Yushchenko is good, Yulia is sexy, Yanukovych is bad, Russian-speaking Ukrainians are against the West, Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians are against Russia. Much of the blame for it is on our politicians, whose infighting and other exploits often defy logic and are too far removed from realities down on the ground. Some of the blame is on people like myself, who are watching the game from the sidelines, occasionally cheering for some players and booing others, not really capable of explaining what the hell is going on to extraneous observers, many of whom are too preoccupied with all things Russia anyway to pay any attention. Whatever.

27 comments:

  1. Whoa, talk about them being super defensive... and hyper-phobic, if that's even a word. You point out a typo, and they launch into a political tirade on a point of grammar. I read LR, but one must learn to separate interesting articles from LR's quite often crazy rants.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Neeka, allow me to point out that La Russophobe is one of the best friends that Ukraine has.

    I think they did happen to go overboard quite a bit in yelling at you.

    But they are right about Yanukovych and the Party of Regions, and their pro-Russian tendencies, and they certainly don't oversimplify Ukrainian politics.

    Yanukovych goes to a wealthy suburb outside of Moscow for his vacations. The Party of Regions just kicked out Raisa Bohatyrova because she stood up for Georgia's independence and freedom for Georgia.

    The Party of Regions supports what Russia has just done to Georgia.

    One can find many videos of Yanukovych and Putin and Medvedev hanging out together (example - Yanukovych handing out candy to Putin and Medvedev at an official function).

    The Ukrainian "political elite" has institutionalized political insanity. The sad thing is that people sit on the sidelines and tolerate it. The mayoral elections in Kyiv recently are a good result, where Chernovetsky openly bought votes with small sums of money and little packages of goodies, containing stale tea and other such items.

    And you are right - sitting around and saying "a pox on all your houses" is not going stop the madness and the insane little games of the Ukrainian "political elite."

    A roomful of schoolchildren could do better than them.

    And Ukrainians ought to do a lot better in demanding good government. They certainly aren't going to get it from Russia, which will step all over Ukraine with military fascist boots.

    ReplyDelete
  3. This incident just confirms me in my long-held view that La Russophobe is not at all what it (she?) appears to be.

    Thanks for sharing the account of what happened, Veronica.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I had forgotten about LaRussophobe's existence. I wish you hadn't reminded me. Why would you want to waste time arguing with it or drive any traffic there?

    ReplyDelete
  5. Why did they limit their greatness to The Planet and didn't extend it to Galaxies far, far away or the entire Universe?
    Sasha

    ReplyDelete
  6. Elmer,

    I think I can safely guarantee that La Russophobe would drop Ukraine like a piece of enriched plutonium, if she thought that it wasn't looking out for pro-U.S. and/or anti-Russian interests. She cares about as much about Ukraine as Putin does for South Ossetia.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Allow me to point out that La Russophobe is not anti-Russian.

    It is anti-Russian government, specifically, against the totalitarian, authoritarian, "managed democracy" kleptocracy that has emerged in Russia.

    It is firmly pro-Ukrainian democracy, despite all the flaws.

    Allow me to point out that LR is a group of people, although there is a female on board.

    And, finally, they care about Ukraine as much as they do about Georgia, and Estonia, and Latvia, and Lithuania, etc.

    In other words, they care about those countries that have been bullied, and dominated, by Maskva/Russia, and who may once again lose their freedom because Vlad Dracul Putin and a select few kleptocrats want to make themselves feel good.

    The issue is freedom, and deprivation of freedom by Russia, both inside and outside of Russia.

    That's what they care about.

    Now, Neeka made a somewhat snippy comment, but they definitely went overboard in their tirade/response, and there was no call for such a reaction.

    They also corrected the mistake that Neeka pointed out.

    ReplyDelete
  8. I agree with Neeka. One can hardly dispute the pro-Russian orientation of the Party of Regions. Russia Fractures Ukraine’s Pro-Russian Party of Regions would be a better headline.

    I also agree with Markian. La Russophobe often prints good articles, but its ad hominem arguments with readers seem to be counter-productive.

    Elmer, I think Bohatyryova stood for her own job security, not for the security of Georgia. During the Orange Revolution, she had propagated the separatist cause in eastern Ukraine.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Elmer, but the very fact that LR has attempted, in a rather inept way, to tear down the Russian language should alert you to the fact that she is as anti-Russian as anyone, including you. What's with her anti-Sharapova thing, by the way? Or describing Russians as drunks, whores and cowards. Sorry, matey, but that is anti-Russian.

    Then again, as someone who regularly uses "roosha" or "rasha" to designate the country in question, I don't imagine that you really notice.

    And just what IS your problem with the Jews? Don't deny it: internet caches are unforgiving!

    ReplyDelete
  10. When Vlad Dracul says that Ukraine is not a country, I am going to refer to "roosha" or "rasha."

    When, on the assorted blogs, rooshans say that Ukrainians are really rashans, I am going to refer to roosha or rashans.

    When rasha invades Georgia, and then won't leave under assorted pretexts, I am going to refer to roosha or rasha.

    When rashan stooges launch riots in Estonia, and cyberattacks against Georgia and Estonia, I am going to refer to rasha or roosha.

    When Vlad Dracul, and "Zvirinovsky" (a "zvirina" for sure), and Luzhkov, and assorted other rashan kleptocracts attack the territorial integrity of Ukraine, and claim that Crimea is rooshan, and in the case of Zvirinovsky do it under the very obvious and proud cloud of alcohol, I am going to refer to roosha or rasha. And to rashan whores and drunks and cowards.

    When Vlad Dracul and his henchmen put Taras Zeleniak under criminal prosecution for exercising free speech on the Internet, I am going to refer to roosha or rasha.

    When Vlad Dracul and his henchmen claim that roosha has been "insulted" because Kosovo, hundreds of miles away from roosha, got independence, I will refer to roosha or rasha.

    And, by the way, LR back up their assertions with statistics. That's not anti-rooshan, that's just facts.

    LR does NOT try to "tear down the Russian language." I can't imagine what you are basing that on.

    My "problem" with the Jews??!!!!! Whoa, that one sort of came out of nowhere.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Oh Elmer,

    What a tangled web you weave...

    First, all of the examples of Russian hideousness to which you refer occur somewhat AFTER you Wilde-like appearance with the notably clever epithets "roosha" or "rasha." While I'm certain that that alone has Putin shaking in his size 37 boots, I have to ask: shall I provide the links to your previous posts, for the edification of the public, in order to show incontestibly, that your wit was rather prescient, i.e. that you used your cunningly biting terms long before these events occured? As I said, web caches are rather unforgiving.

    Secondly, please provide the links to where "rooshans" refer to Ukrainians as "rashans." That will be equally edifying.

    But soft: you're already in with the "drunks, whores and cowards, thing. Classic! In defending LaR, you've taken a bullet for her, or will you now also claim not to be anti-Russian? I had wondered what became of Shemp, but now I know.

    Elmer, if you'll permit: you are the classic Ukrainian ex-pat, or rather whatever generation North American of Ukrainian heritage, who has no time for modern-day Ukrainians (i.e. the ones who "speak terrible Ukrainian, are concerned only about living today, etc.") Your multiple comments about idiotic contemporary Ukrainians on other blogs certainly prove that.

    And, if you like, I will post the links here to your derogatory posts about Jews - that's no difficulty, as you know quite well. After all, you know you wrote these things. I seem to recall one just yesterday about idiotic Ukrainians - do you deny it?

    La Russophobe was also "firmly" pro-British, until they disappointed her, upon which she wrote how "slow" Brits are on the Publius Pundit blog. (I know you remember it, as several of your extraordinary post were there. Shame she killed that blog off, isn't it?) I found her "gratitude" towards the U.K. rather insulting, but instructive. A more fair-weather friend, Britain - and Ukraine - doesn't need.

    But, I admit, you are fascinating: Kosovo, is miles away from Russia, so they shouldn't care. It's also rather far from the U.S.A. - so why do you care? South Ossetia isn't on Ukraine's doorstep, much less that of the U.S.A. - so what gives?

    But LaR has statistics! Wonderful. Has she cited the statistics from polls about Ukraine joining NATO?

    ReplyDelete
  12. Anti-Neeka tandem news: Elmer offers LaR a shoulder to cry on...

    elmer // September 4, 2008 at 11:13 pm

    LR, this is a great blog, and the mistake was corrected.

    But perhaps the last LR response to Neeka was a bit over the top (and, yes, there was a somewhat snippy comment from her). Nevertheless…

    LA RUSSOPHOBE RESPONDS: LR and Neeka go way back, she’s defamed us before on her blog and repeatedly ignores our content in a highly irresponsible manner. Thus, although mostly clear from the catty nature of her statements, the full extent of her bad faith her is not totally apparent. We actually feel we were quite gentle with her. Besides which, over the top is our stock in trade. It seems quite clear she can dish it out but can’t take it. No place for crybabies in the Russian blogosphere.

    ReplyDelete
  13. "La Russophobe is one of the best friends that Ukraine has."

    Врятуй нас, Господи, від таких друзів, а з ворогами ми самі впораємося.

    ReplyDelete
  14. What's the point of your post, anonymous? You don't have the decency or the guts to identify yourself.

    In other countries, people have the right to confront their accuser. Apparently, not so in roosha.

    So..... all of a sudden this post and this blog turns into Elmer-phile, or in your case, Elmer-phobia.

    Are you having fun?

    Why should people care about Kosovo?

    Freedom.

    What does rasha peddle, as in Georgia? Slavery to maskva.

    If you can't understand that, I pity you. And it appears you don't.

    ReplyDelete
  15. As has been demonstrated many times, LR is a anti-Russian bigot. Everything is twisted to conform to "her" bizarre world-view. On top of that is her shameless self-aggrandizing and commentary from various sock-puppets and mentally-challenged sycophants.

    I realize part of your job Neeka is to find those opinions being written on blogs on the web, but you really could do so SO much better than to trouble yourself with that trash. At least there are coherent negative opinions on other forums that are not fed by blind bigotry. And "her" venom is fueled by nothing less than bigotry with a splash of ignorance for good measure.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Really, "elmer?" You're opposed to anonymity? Not for yourself, I see, or for "Kim Zigfeld, however, isn't that so?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Veronica, props for taking this in good humor.

    ReplyDelete
  18. BlackMinorcaPullets8:52 AM, September 07, 2008

    Is there any doubt that Yanukovych and his party are Russian swinia?

    How quick they forget.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP0vWkqOQT8

    ReplyDelete
  19. Well, yes, blackminorwhatever, there is. You see, they're a Ukrainian political party. Deal with it. They may even do a deal with one of your former faves, Yulia. How on earth will you deal with that, other than doing the usual Republican thing and trying to clear your archives, in which you praised Yulia to the skies?

    ReplyDelete
  20. Veronica,
    Your blog will soon be ovewhelmed if what I heard on the radio this morning has any reality: Crimea and Sebastopol might appeal to Russia too, in that same kind of "ethnic" strife. The leader Dubinski is allegedly fomenting revolt under the claim that 70% of the poulation is Russian and Ukrainian is not spoken on the city's streets... Clear reference to Ossetia was made in the two interviews I heard (not very clearly though since when breakfasting with the kids). Whoever the reporter,I wonder if Western media now want to spread the panic about separatism, leading to Russia extending its paws, and to the return of Bolshevism...
    What have Monsieur Duchemin/Pathway (Poutine) et Monsieur l'Ours/Bear(Medvedev)in mind? I think those names are funny in such circumstances...
    Bye
    Genia

    ReplyDelete
  21. Bienvenue à l'Ukraine, Monsieur l'Ours-Poutine!

    A la guerre comme a la guerre:)

    ReplyDelete
  22. PoR is a "Ukrainian" political party?

    In name only. They are a bunch of swine that steal from and rob Ukraine. Zviahilksy, the 300-pound slob owner of mines that blow up, is part of a "Ukrainian" party? Kalashnikov, the screaming "warrior" (saldat) that beats up journalists and is ready to die - get this - for the Party of Regions, not Ukraine, is part of a "Ukrainian" party?

    The swill that makes up the Party of Regions is just about as Ukrainian as any dog that runs on the streets. They are interested only in their own bellies, and nothing else.

    No matter what kinds of sounds they make, as people die in mine explosions and apartment explosions - in Ukraine

    ReplyDelete
  23. Taras, thank you for the cooking link! I'll try this receipt :0.
    Since you seem to read French fluently, just follow this link : http://www.letemps.ch/template/international.asp?page=4&article=239347#239336, the written version of my post.
    (For non-francophones : the title reads :"The Russian flag flies over Sebastopol and in the heart of its inhabitants".)
    Genia

    ReplyDelete
  24. Sorry, the pro-Russian leader's name is Dubichin, and not Dubinski...
    Genia

    ReplyDelete
  25. http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/the-daily-cartoon-760940.html
    :)))
    Genia

    ReplyDelete
  26. "We simply got a bit confused going to press, since we have many, many contributors and many people carrying out many different tasks, something you are apparently not familiar with (but at big newspapers, such mistakes happen every day of the week)."

    Sounds like LR is taking a cue directly from the USSR by "carrying out many tasks." Or Russia Today by presenting a mirror image.

    "Going to press," "big newspapers"... read, printed and sopped up by denizens of the Kingdom of the Trolls?

    "The goal of modern propaganda is no longer to transform opinion but to arouse an active and mythical belief." ~ Jacques Ellul

    Cheers, Neeka.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Thank you for the links, Genia!

    I hope things stay quiet in Crimea. We don’t need a Crimean war in the 21st century.

    Wish I spoke French fluently. I spoke basic French as a high school student, but lost my grip due to lack of practice. All I have left is my French pronunciation and a few cliches.

    Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité:)!

    ReplyDelete